Open Minded Vs. Closed Minded

Gay Marriage and Gay People: dont like them, not because they are different, but because what they are and what they stand for is immoral. If they wanna do what they wanna do behind closed doors, fine. But they should keep them away from the youth especially, because if everyone's gey, than theres no more humanity people.

Cloning: Interesting, but un-natural. I know it can save lives, but are we playing god to much? I dont know...

Stem Cell Research: Its killing a baby, same as abortion. Remember, you were once that little "glob of flesh", would you have liked it if someone chose for you not to be born Yukou?

Abortion: okay in cases of rape, but other than that, no.

 

Gay marriages and gay people: I love them, we should have the freedom to do what we want. People may have their own opinion that its not right, but if its how someone feels towards the same sex its how someone feels. You cant really change that.

Cloning: Well after having seen the movie the Island. I'm against using clones for a 'insurance' against any health benefits. I feel clones if they are living creatures should have rights just like us, even if the are invitro made.

Stem cell: Sciene have now come up with a way not to harm babies using cells in a mothers umbilical cord (i cant spell). So i say go for it

Abortion: I'm against, but depending on circumstances it varies.

 

Gay people and marriage= I know a good amount of gay people,and they arent that bad.I actually like them more then alot of other people I know.They have every right to marry if they want too,and even if they cant,it wont stop them from being with each other.Its not like seeing a gay couple making out will make you gay,just like watching a straight couple wont make you straight.

Abortion: For now Im staying out of it

Clones: Im for it,as long as we can perfect it,AND we dont use it like in Star Wars where they were treated like slaves that could just be thrown away (they didnt even recieve proper medical care in that universe)

Stem Cells: Dont know enough about,staying out

 

Wow I really like this topic ^^... Okay, these days theres still a few good amount of Closed Minded people because they don't want change, their religion (I've got beef with most religiong so don't mind me, I won't get into the topic:]) says otherwise or they don't know what's happening and are afraid of the research... Well why shouldn't we improve?? We can't live in the past forever, we've got to make some good changes in the future... It's really our job to advance the way of thinking abd grasp things we never understood before, and stay open to other things and new ideas...

Gay Marriage and Gay People: I'm with a lot of the people who already wrote in this thread, why can't we have gay marriage and what not?? Who are we to judge who other people love?? It's there own decision on the matter... Some people don't like them or don't respect them because the bible doesn't except gay people.. Well you know what God claimed he loved all the children of the world no matter what so why did he also say he doesn't like gays, makes absolutely no sense at all!! Anyways, I believe that people can love the opposite or the same gender because you can't help who you love... Imaging a while back some people liked the same gender as themselves yet were shunned from society, and were forced to love the opposite gender even if they didn't want too... Isn't that unfair, would you like it if someone said you couldn't follow your heart and do what you wanted because people didn't agree with you?? I know from personal experience about this because one of my friends moms always like females but was forced to marry a man because she came from a huge religious family... Well you know what that marriage couldn't last long because she always regreted not doing what she wanted too, but now she does has a girlfriend and couldn't be happier so why should I deny her happiness?? Simple I shouldn't and couldn't be happier for her, and I respect all people as individual and wouldn't judge them by their prefered sexual orientation =]

Cloning: I completely agree with cloning because it's an advancement in science and could really help out other people... You know some people have rare blood types where only a couple of people can give you transplants, well what happens if the only people who could help were terribly ill themselves?? Are you just supposed to die and give up with not a fight?? How would you brake it to your child if she was the one that was sick but nobody you knew carried her blood type (It happens sometimes where even your parents don't carry your blood, it's more rare but it happens...trust me I know)... So imaging the relief it would bring if you could clone all of your organs and be able to know without a doubt that if you were going to be very sick or diagnosed with a rare yet fatal disease that you have a back up plan, and have a greater chance to live... I personally wouldn't want to doubt anyone of that, so I'm all for cloning :]

Stem Cell Research: I find that this an ingenius plan, it would make it all so much simpler if we could use our stem cells to help us if we were to obtain a deadly disease... Like the other topics, I'm all for this one... It's from our own body at birth so why not use it, it's ours... I find scientist are really starting to make good changes for us, stem cells could save some people... Imaging surviving something so fatal because you decided to keep your stem cell, wouldn't that be one of the happiest moments of your life?? You would know that now you have more time to live and be a normal person, and that;s what everyone wants :]

Abortion: Now this is the tricky one for me... Should you do it because you don't think that you're a fit mother right then and there, but you're killing a person who never had the chance to realize their full potential in life... I'm not all for this one because I think that every person has the right to live, and really it would be your fault if you got pregnant and you didn't want to because there is some methods to prevent like the pill, condom ect.. And when you have the baby you could just put it up for adoption and some other people who are more then willing to take care of your baby will... So reallyn abortion is a hard subject even to this day, but I'm more against it since it's not fair to the life that you're throwing away

 

this is why i dont look at the debate threads anymore.....
Your whole opening paragraph is great, but going about everything the way you just said is the same old sinful human being sickness thats been going on since the dawn of man. Mentally we should improve, we should all become SMARTER. Lets not improve the things around us, but improve ourselves. And by doing so, we improve the world around us.

 

What's so sinful about what I just said?? What that gay people are just like everyone else and should be treated normally or the fact that I think cloning would be a good idea?? Yes, mentally we should all improve, everyone can, but why not try to improve the things around us?? There's a lot of things that need work on but if everyone says "Let's not improve the things around us" nothing would be done now would it.... As a society of people we have to try to make the future a better place for future races to live happily in (Or as close as you can get because it would be hard to make everyone happy). But we should also improve ourselves because that's how we grow as people. I believe that new things should get a chance and see how things will work out, we may not no what the out come is but if we never try what we say is impossible we will never grow.

 

I don't really agree with what gay people do, but I think they should be happy just like everyone else on Earth.

 

your just a kid, you need to see real life more to know what i'm talking about.

 

oooo that kid thing was sorta a low blow...(from my POV) but I can see why you'd say that.
Gays: "sighs" If it's a physical/mental problem, i understand. If it's a choice of free will....hard. God made 2 DIFFERENT sexes for a REASON. But, this doesnt mean that they should be treated like freaks.Treat em like you treat others, then I see no problem unless you treat others like sh**

Cloning-Not right in the slightest MORALLY. Scientificaly? Different story. Cloning should be kept to minor things (ehhem, not humans) lest we confuse ourself with God (gods depending on religion).

Stem Cells-Staying out, dont know enough.

Abortion-Life starts as soon as your concieved. No if's and's or but's about it. Abortion is MURDER. And not "i kill so-&-so murder who can fight back" (which is still wrong) but "helpless, child murder" Rape? There's a VERY small chance you'll get pregnant from rape from what I hear but that is still no excuse for an abortion. There are people (coughadoptionhousescough) who'll take the child and take care of him/her until adopted. Trust me, I know people who actually suffer (mentally) from having aborted a child.

Those're my thoughts.

 

S: Tact man, Tact...

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PurpleDiamond I respect your scientific perspective. I do however challenge you to critically analyze your scientific principles and understand that there are assumptions which you can't prove as well. These are the principles which a religious person can attack, just as you see fault in religion. In a nutshell, the idea is that science is a leap of faith also. (Please let me know if you'd like me to explain anything here...I've posted it a few times now but I wouldn't mind explaining again)


There is even a misconception that a mathematical proof is perfect since there are no assumptions...there are no 'observations' we can't explain and which cloud our judgement...but on the contrary, there are assumptions (called 'axioms') which you don't find out about until later, which we have no way of deciding are correct! (Proving something using that idea as a building block is cyclic logic).


I'm more conservative with certain issues, such as cloning or anything that may have moral consequences because of some wise words a friend of mine said:

"Scientists will blow up the earth, just to prove they can."

And he's absolutely right...if science is all about progress, what stops them?

(Just so you know, I hold a Bachelor of Science (and am doing my Masters in Math at the moment). Don't take this as 'believe me because I'm great' and instead my point is that I too like and put some faith in science...so I don't want you to think of any of this post as an 'attack.')

I too know this to be the case. Infact in Canada (where abortion, even late term abortion, is legal), there is mandatory psychological counselling that goes with every abortion (I'm not quite sure how the rules work though, this may be 'late term' abortions or all of them).

 

I am not going to be able to write much (I have been really busy with course work. I was actually doing my philosophy homework just now ^ ^)...but I would just like to thank you Mike for essentially noting that trusting in science also takes a "leap of faith".

And I thought I'd share something I read today with you all because it's actually relevant

Loren Eiseley: "The philosophy of experimental science...began its discoveries and made use of its methods in the faith, not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a creator who did not act upon whim nor interfere with the forces He had set in operation...It is surely on eo fthe curious paradoxes of history that science, which professionally has little to do with faith, owes its origins to an act of faith that the universe can be rationally interpreted, and that science today is sustained by that assumption." [Jack Bowen's The Dream Weaver, page 127.]


Not something that I read but that is relevant to the discussion (I hope I didn't already say this, sorry if I did )

Science is "systematized knowledge derived from observation, study, and experimentation {inductive reasoning to be noted} carried on in order to determine the nature or principles of what is being studied"--Webster's New World Dictionary...

Basically there are two main presuppositions/assumptions:

1) Nature operates according to a set of rules
and
2) People are capable of discovering what these rules are by experimentation (and mathematics)

 

Hell to the fuckin yeah.

Thats what I believe. I believe in God, but i also dont believe in crappy CHristian answers whenever you ask them a hard question and they say:"We'll never know".

Its bull shit.
We can know.
Its all mathematics.
Numbers are gods in and of themselves.
A universal language.

 

Alright, here we go.

On Homosexuality:
I'm bisexual myself, so I've always found this debate interesting. Moreso because I can easily understand where both sides are coming from. We've all been raised around particular environments that either support a way of life or an innovation, or deny it. Since our minds are basically like sponges and since we've been growing up a particular perception for so long, its only natural that we'd incorporate that same one into our lives. For example, Soul Knight and I had a little squabble in a previous thread about how since we were brought up in different regions of the country, that ultimately helped determine which side of the debate we'd migrate into.

In this case, I'll bring up a couple of things to help support where I'm going. I'm a native of Los Angeles, California, which is one of the centers of the world in terms of where homosexuality tends to thrive the most, per se. Through out my short life time, I've ran into a bunch of different people and experiences relating to that topic. I have a multitude of gay and bisexual friends and the marriage issue is a huge topic in my state. I personally think that there shouldn't be an issue with same sex marriage because there's no force on this earth, or in existence that has the power to dictate 'love'. If two people love each other enough to where they want to commit themselves to each other institutionally, then they should always have the choice to marry, regardless of sexuality or any other factors.

I think it's pretty low and cowardly to prevent people from marrying simply because a group doesn't approve of those genders doing it. It's really no one's business about who someone else is getting married to unless you're actually getting invited to their wedding. I also feel like riding on a common misconception that gays are unfit to be parents and shouldn't 'expose' their sexualities to children? I think that those are pretty small concerns compared to another fact that some heterosexual couples abuse their children, or are a danger to themselves because they haven't fully matured into responsible adults? The same issue rolls into expressing sex around their children as well. Someone being gay isn't going to infect a child. I've seen a lot of documentaries where the children of gay couples say that even though they were raised in a gay household, they still identify with themselves as heterosexuals. So, it's just kinda like....what's the point in complaining about this?

Then about the whole 'its against nature' debate. Do you have any idea how consistent same sex relations are in nature, and through out history? The way I see things, sure men and women were created to reproduce in order to sustain a population. But at the same time, there was never any natural protection to keep them from having sexual relationships with their own gender. For the people that say.."men and women weren't created for that" -- Men and Women were created in variations and various attractions to eventually reproduce to create new generations. The fact that homosexuality exists doesn't prevent a population from continuing and spreading its seeds. What 'does' prevent new babies actually belongs to violence, disease, and death from over consumption of alcohol and drugs :]


I think the whole 'homosexuality is un natural' argument is pretty narrow minded, to be honest.
There are plenty of dogs, tigers, turtles, crabs and all sorts of animals out there that fuck their same-sex friends because they're into it. I should also add that homosexual sex was extremely prevalent around the time the bibles and scriptures were created. So, I lol at that.

 

We can know alot of things, but not everything. We can never be 100% sure of something, and we'll never know 100% of things.

I suppose you can argue that given time, we can know everything. But we can't know everything in this lifetime.

We won't know if God, Heaven, or Hell exsists until we die. Sure, we believe all these things exsist (A majority of us do). But we will never know until we die. In the whole argument on the afterlife, as long as we're alive anybody's belief can be the one that is right.

 

??? Does this has anything to do with open vs. close minds? I'm real confused. Also, -__- Right now, I have a question that I want to say. If you say that you is not gay & you go around & hate gays, but you yourself have a feeling in you that you in love with the same sex, what does that makes you? To me, people who minds be like that are so, let's say, "messed up".

 

I had to read that about three times =\

Anyway...
That's just DENIAL. I wouldn't go so far as calling the person messed up (messed up would be psychopaths). The person him/herself would be more confused than messed up. Confusion leads to people doing strange things. In this case, a gay in denial.

There's something I like to call "The Five Stages of Grief" (Actually, I'm pulling this from The Simpsons)

>Denial
>Anger
>Fear
>Bargaining
>Acceptance

Lets put these in use for this subject.
Denial; The potential homosexual saying that they are not gay.
Anger; Now they are hating Homosexuals.
Fear; Finally coming to terms that they actually could be homosexual and are now afraid.
Bargaining; They will do what they can to prove that they are not a homosexual.
Acceptance; Finally they realise that they really are a homosexual and will come to terms with who they are.

 

"then everybody would be a man and a woman."

If women weren't meant to have sex with women, then why do men usually watch them when they do?

 

Because of the double standard men have. To straight guys, guy on guy action is disgusting and stuff. But most guys see girl on girl action as hot and sexy and stuff. I say most guys because I know I guy who said that he actually finds girl on girl action disgusting. He would be one of the people who think sex is only for one man and one woman.

 

Well it seems you all are talking about homosexuals at the moment so here is my input.

It's a free country so if you want to be gay then fine but do not force me to be tolerant of it. I don't have to accept homosexuality as something good. The only reason the gay community wants people to accept them is so they wont feel bad about what they are doing and so they don't have any guilt.

Secondly I do not want my children or any child to be taught in school to accept gays. So keep the liberal education routine out of our schools.

Second of all I am against Gay marriage because marriage is defined as a sacred union between one man and one woman. So stop messing with something that has been traditional since it's creation.

Let me be clear I have nothing against Gay and Lesbian people. I do have something against the immoral acts they are doing. As a christian I cannot hate anyone.
-----------------------------------

Now I could go into the scientific facts against homosexuals too. For example some studies show that homosexuals are likely to die by the age of 50 and if they contract aids (Which is more likely to happen to a gay person) their life span is reduced to 40.

I will gladly find other statistics if anyone would like me to.