Capital Punishment

Ah, but do you have to continue being who you were born as?

It's very easy to fake who you are.

 

Yes, but you'd still spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder. There are always ways for your true identity to be discovered, no matter how well you covered up the trail.

 

I apologize if I'm repeating what anyone's said...I skipped over a few pages in the middle of the topic.

I'd rather just state once that these are all my opinion...and I have no way to 'prove' anything...better to state a disclaimer than to say it after every sentence

These are my thoughts:

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First in a religious sense (as seems to have been brought up in the first post of this topic). Far-be-it from me to call capital punishment "God's wrath." Because if you did, you'd have to call murder God's Wrath too. The first thing that may jump into your mind is that I'm going to say "Capital punishment is murder too."

But I'm not saying that...instead, I'm claiming that calling capital punishment God's Wrath is only valid because it's in God's great plan, and humans are implemented to do God's work (and execute this person). Well in God's plan the murder victim was supposed to die too...rape victim supposed to suffer...etc...and again, humans were implemented to do the work, so by the previous logic, those are God's wrath too.

So it's up to you: Either capital punishment is not God's wrath, or it is, and so is the initial crime. I prefer to think that God's not punishing the (seemingly) innocent, so I tend to take the conservative view and leave God out of the capital punishment arguments. I find they're unproductive, and tend to challenge peoples' beliefs a bit more than is necessary. Simpler arguments will do.

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Next is the budget issue. It is definitely cheaper to execute someone than to continue feeding them for 20 years. But again...by this logic, it's cheaper to execute someone than to continue feeding them for 1 year. Should we execute people who went to prison for fraud? Or getting in a bar fight when they're drunk? What about people who do it twenty times in a row (and serve a 20 year "life" sentence)?

In my eyes these aren't people who deserve death, and instead just need a sense of 'Go up to your room and think about what you did young man.' If we wouldn't execute someone who committed 20 very small crimes (small relative to murder) and would spend tax money feeding them, then it's hypocritical to do the opposite for someone who did one big crime by this argument. It wouldn't be any more expensive.

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The parole issue. Keep in mind that prison is a horrible place, particularly maximum security prisons. I refer you to Alcatraz, arguably one of the most horrible places on the planet in the early to mid 1900's. If you're unfamiliar with it, here is a picture:

http://www.lewissommer.com/San Francisco Images/images/Alcatraz.jpg

Surrounded by water, it got very cold at night, and their showers were deliberately kept very warm (this was to prevent escape via swimming...any that tried, presumably got hypothermia and drowned (except for the one unsolved case...no one knows about that one)). And that's not the half of it...look into it if you're interested. Its design was quite ingenious.

Take home point is, it's a very bad atmosphere...and there are 2 ways to get out. One is to serve your whole sentence, which is probably quite long if you're on the 'death row' side of the argument. Two is to get parole and get out (a little) early. Parole only comes with good behaviour.

It's been mentioned that good behaviour can be faked. This is true...but (big red flag, this is opinion not fact) I couldn't imagine someone NOT wanting to get out so badly that they would change their ways completely...unless they have a mental illness, in which case they won't be behaving well.

It's also good to mention the 'escape' part of the argument, and that inmates may break out and flee: My answer is simply that a well designed prison (like Alcatraz was) would prevent this. The reason I brought this up is because sometimes people 'fake' being well behaved to get the favour of the guards and attempt to break free.

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I think that's all I'll mention for now.

 

All are excellent points. And about the issue of faking good behaviour, very difficult.

It would be near impossible to fake being good when things are so terrible that you can hardly focus daily. You could easily go mad in a place like Alcatraz. And even then, there's no way someone is just going to lay back and let themselves be abused by other inmates.

Are you just gonna let them kick you a** or even do worse, just to keep good behaviour on you rap?

No.

 

Actually, I would. I'd love to see there faces when they see me walking out in civvies an that they're still in grey jumpsuits.

And on the god side of the arguement, it was also said to be God's wrath against all those who work on the holy day (Sunday). So let's wave goodbye to half of America.

 

And I say that doing that will make you just as bad. Post proof that prisons are closing down. And post more proof that new prisons are not opening up. Then we can debate.

 

lining them up and shooting them down is against the law too. all you do it send them to court, and let the legal course take action.

 

Without keeping with our laws we descend into chaos. That is a bad thing. And not everything on google is fact and you did not post wether new prisons were opening or not.

 

@Sephiroth

lolwut? "Alcatraz did it to both guilty and innocent(unfortuantly) so why not us. Guantonemo does to and they torture them to both innocent(unfortuantly) and guilty.". Thanks for proving my arguement. We kill the people who don't deserve it before they realize they didn't do it. That's why there should be no capital punishment.

 

Because they are wrong, immoral, and above all, moronic. I am just building off of you before Zenrot comes back. And before I hear/read the ever classic "He would do it to me!" I will tell you right now that no one should say it. It is stupid, and lazy to do something to someone just because they would do it. It shows a lack of intelligence on the user of that sentence. So don't say it or I will disregard the rest of your opinions. Just a warning.

 

HAHA before i come back XP

basically i've already given my argument. I don't think that someone who kills someone else has any right to life unless they have no other choice but to kill. If you kill someone, then you die. Is anyone in this thread planning on killing someone? if not then guess what, we dont have to worry about capital punishment. and sephiroth slasher dude, chill out man. A gun in every hand and a cap in every ass doesn't solve that many problems.

 

I guess I can never get you to turn around. Zenrot my friend, you are a worthy opponent.
As was said before, murder is murder weather it be punishment or not. Not all murders are done for the heck of it. It might be punishment for past crime against someone. That is what revenge is. I say help the person out. Watch shaw shank redemption. It is based off a true story.

 

No, you definitely won't turn me around, and neither will a feature film. I never said murder was done just because someone said "you know what, i feel like taking a life today". But regardless of the reason, murder is murder. Of course there are exceptions, Self-Defense makes you in the clear (although thats harder and harder to prove over time) and if its an accident you get manslaughter, which is still serious but much lighter. If someone takes revenge, well thats illegal too. I say help the person out straight to the chair, because in my eyes once you're a killer you're ALWAYS a killer. I'm not trying to sway anyone though, I just enjoy tangling with you and defending what I believe, I don't expect you to join my side or something.

 

Why Zenrot! You just made a bit of a joke! In my eyes the executioner is a murderer as well. Although, and I am speculating here, the guy was guilty. He was never allowed a second chance were he might just be able to turn around. Yes people may shun them but life is life. We never have the right to take it away.

 

EXACTLY my point. And when you kill someone you are saying that the right to life isnt sacred, so you get to lose your's too.

 

Doesn't mean we should take it. Maybe the person needs to learn what is wrong about such acts. A person never sees them selves as evil and wrong. We are both case in points. Have you noticed that no one else is posting now? WHY DO MY COMRADES ABANDON ME!!!

 

No, thats not true, alot of people express remorse about the things that they do. But I don't think getting a "time out" is an adequate punishment for killing someone.

"now do you understand why not to kill someone?"
"yes maam"
"ok, here's your pistol, go live a good life buddy!"

Yeah, no thanks.

 

Good god! You actually think it is that easy? When you are let out, if your let out, then you don't get some of the rights you had. You can't legally have a gun. In my opinion people should get a second chance. If they blow it, then you can fry em. We have no right to say that the one who did the deed won't show remorse. We also have no right to say "You killed someone, here take a seat in this here electric chair." You can't kill some one for killing just because it will make people feel better. That is my point.