Gay Rights

Thats it, I am starting a bible debate now. I will have to concede to you in some areas Dark Riku. Pursuit of happiness, but I don't think god would allow creation of homo's if he didn't want em.

 

as for either side

1. Everybody makes mistakes Zerieth including god. Just look at Donald Trump if you need an example.

2. If everyone is made in gods image maybe god is Bi.

3. My personal opionion = who cares? gay or not why does it matter.

 

shot at by a bullet. ACK! Lets see if I can dodge.

Dodge 1:God does not make mistakes. He sees what is to come, if you believe in destiny, and he knows what his actions will do. Jesus was perfect and so is god.

Dodge 2:Well, I can't argue that well. We don't really know, but can you prove he is?

Dodge 3:Not a bullet. I totally agree.
Do I live?

 

Actually, the Bible contains suffiecient evidence within Genesis alone to suggest that God is not in fact perfect, and indeed he is also rather fickle. The very existence of original sin shows God's imperfection. The story of Noah is another good one. God sees that he world has become a place he doesn't like. He made it. If he was perfect, the world would be exactly what he wants it to be. But, diuspleased with his creation, he wipes the whole thing out except for Noah, his family, and his little floating menagerie. Then, when the flood waters recede, he decides that was a horrible idea and that he won't do it again. The fact that he made what he deems a bad idea shows us again that he is imperfect. And he's also changed is mind again and again in that story.

Jesus wasn't perfect either. I can show that with one quote. "Father, why hast thou forsaken me?" while on the cross, Jesus shows a major moment of weakness. Had he been perfect, his faith would have never faltered.

And as for the destiny idea, I disagree with that as well, but that's a story for another debate.

The point is, the argument of God being perfect would never work here. First of all, as I've shown, he isn't. Secondly, if he was, than this world, as his creation, would be perfect, as anything made by a perfect being would be. If it is flawed, than that means God as it's creator is capable of making flaws and is therefore, flawed himself. So, to say that God is perfect, you must then assume that there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, since the creation of a flawless being can not be flawed.

And finally, as we can see in the story of Noah, God can be fickle. Who is to say he hasn't changed his mind on the issue of homosexuality? Wouldn't be the first thing he ever changed his mind about would it?

 

The problem with people interpreting the bible is that it's exactly that: An interpretation.

God doesn't play by our rules...He is not subject to our logic, or our laws.

The only thing I would have to argue with EbAl about on his last post, is that God doesn't change his mind. If He sees everything before it happens, there's no 'mindchanging' to be done: He's already decided it.

You might go on to say "But then what about the flood?" and true, I haven't addressed that. I could attempt to, but the probability that I'll hit the nail on the head is very very slim. We can't understand God, and even though we should try, we should not attempt to succeed.

If you're interested EbAl, I can tell you my personal theory privately, or in the religion topic (this isn't really the place to discuss something like that). I don't claim it is correct, but I'm attempting to work off of as few biases (and personal interpretations) as possible (in other words, I give God the benefit of the doubt: 'by definition' God is good. If I somehow deduce God is not, I must be incorrect). The basic principle is just as I've said; I don't understand God, and don't expect to. I assure you that even though I can't prove my theory is right, given that I believe it, I find no problem with what you've posed (ie. God is still perfect in my eyes). But again, I'll save the details for another time.

As for the homosexuality issue that is at the core of this topic (not the bible), I have no problem with what people do in private. What I do have a problem with, is permiscuity, and flambuoyancy: Two stereotypes of being gay. I have a few friends who are gay, but are down to earth people...and I also have a whole lot more gays who I find irritating and would like to punch out. It's nothing to do with their sexual preference, it has to do with behaviour.

After all, if a straight person acted gay (ie. so-called "Metrosexuals") I'd want to punch them out too...and in addition, if a straight person acts straight, I don't care for that as well. (E.g. "Whooooa, I just f'd this hot chick last night")

I think all people should keep their sexuality in the bedroom, where it belongs. If certain gay people strive to make everything in their life 'gay' then they shouldn't be surprised that people dislike it. Tone it down, and you'll be fine.

 

Agreed. Being gay is one thing. Declaring it to the world is another.

 

In fact, by declaring it to the world in the way Mike stated, you're only furthering the sterotype that society has placed around you. Everything so many people find annoying about gay people you are living up to. And mostly the reason is pretty much to rub it in their faces cause you know they can't do anything about it without looking like an intolerant jackass.

I'm straight. But I don't go around parading it to the world, making sure everyone knows it. I'm just me. My sexuality does not determine the way I act, nor should it. I don't act obnoxious whenever a hot girl walks by. I'd lie if I said I didn't notice, but I don't make a scene because I honestly don't care. I don't need to whore myself out to every good looking woman I see to prove my straightness, any more than I would need to act flamboyant if I were gay to prove that. My sexuality is my business, and it does not determine my personality. The only thing it determines is who I'm attracted to and who I choose to ask out.

And Mike, bring it up in the religion debate. I've been wanting to see some good new subjects brought up in there, and I think this could be a good one.

 

Everyone agrees! I win I win I win I win I win I win I win I win I win I win. I realize debates can't be won but I thought that those were appropriate. Sorry.

 

Please stop using God as an argument, guys. He is described as something out of our world (literally), and to be perfect. We are merely made in his image. Adam wasn't perfect; we aren't perfect either. So let's not compare to a concept (namely God) that is quite possibly just as wrong as any other form of creation theory. We commonly disbelieve previous deity's without proper understanding of them, and are taught them as myth in English classes. It just takes that one spec of blind faith to go just one god further.

Being straight is one thing; declaring it as the only right is another.

 

I believe that would belong in religion. It is true we slipped into god but we have made many a good point through other things. Note that there was a lot of talk about freedoms in here.

 

Yes. But religion is entirely based off of something..that..well.... you can't question. Or aren't supposed to. Because you just can't. That's not logical and shouldn't be a foundation on justice and what is right.

Stories or scripts used to justify your claims won't do much either, because most of the characters within the bible are easily disprovable due to the fact they have been used countless times in most religions long predating Judaism/Christianity. The only thing that gives the story meaning is the allegory and meaning. And even then, it was a different time period when people thought differently and people today would think they are just as insane as they would think we are.

Being gay is a physical difference, it is changable. Tangible. Not something that requires an underlying factor to justify its right or wrong. But at the same time, it is also an idea. You can't touch it. And like love, it has no face--just an interpretation.

I suppose my only opinion is that being gay is something that comes with time. It's been around all of our time, and it always will be even into the future. You can't change it, and just like a fashion trend or fad it will still be changing to society. Like you respect a person for having a nice attitude or good choice/taste in something (like an opinion), it is entirely applicable to a sex preference; merely opinion. However being non-bias about it will also show your character. And even though the most superficial things can be seen as opinion and preference, none of it is based off of someone's destiny or plan. It just happens. Letting it be will reflect even evolution itself; another issue which most Christians have trouble facing, or so it seems.

O_O;

 

If I get annoyed by a kid throwing a tantrum on the bus, I have every right to get annoyed with 'someone' (ie. gay or not) talking with a lisp and using flambuoyant hand gestures.

If gay people don't like that I (and probably a large fraction of so-called 'homophobic' people) think that, they should think twice about giving into the stereotypes.

 

Definately true Mike.
I see people doing so called "homo" stuff, and it dosen't bug me that its called that, its just that he's talking like this,

" *smack lips* Well, she told me she was like *smacks lips* talking sh1t to her honey, *smacks lips*. B**** please, *smacks lips again* she aint got nothin' on me hun."

annoying

 

Well like it or not that "gay" person is also a....human being.

You make yourself sound extremely insecure about this, no offense.

 

I don't see how what they were saying is dehumanizing. They are just saying that they are annoying.

 

They're not ALL annoying to me. Just a certain person.
And a few others, but otherwise they act just like everybody else....usually.

 

well, i meant the ones that act in that manner.

 

Haha. Mike is anything but insecure.

And I find many human beings annoying, for many reasons. The fact that anyone finds someone annoying for putting on an act like that is far from dehumanizing.

The point is that people go out of their ay to act gay just as much as people go out of their way to act straight. That annoys me in both cases. You're gay/straight. We get it. Now knock it off. Quit acting like the stereotype of your personality and just act like yourself. I don't find them annoying because of their sexuality. I find them annoying because they're acting annoying.

 

Hahaha!!! I'm not gonna lie too but it can be annoying but at the same time it's funny. I just laugh at it.

In case no one here knows, I'm gay! I'm not like those typical gay guys you see me. I don't act "girly" well I do it to be funny but I don't see myself acting like it 24/7. It's just not me. Most guys who are gay that acts like that are WAY too full of themselves and THAT'S ANNOYING!!!

I agree with EbeneezerAl, the whole thing! ^_^

 

I talk like that and I am straight. XD...

Yeah it is annoying. Especially you have to sleep next to them. <---Senior Trip.

It is cool. I have a lot of gay friends, and I stick up for them. Jocks and
Jerks in high school can be so cruel. It is a hassle putting up with them morons. Yeah, some people who you think are straight may not be who you think they are. Well, nice to meet you!!

Also I have nothing against with homophobic either. You believe what you want to believe in. It is okay. My straight friends always ask me, why do I associate with the gays. They say that I am painting my own label, which, everyone think that I am gay, but I don't give a F***. You can say all this S*** about me, but in reality, you want to be in my shoes.

Whatever, that is why I get more @$$ than a toilet seat!

~Raks