Debate: Ansem: Heartless or "Roaming Heart"?

@Brandon Haha nope not a heartless.

I'll just paste my long paragraph here then so we can pick up where we left off. P.S. You must be very fond of me considering you went through the trouble of creating a debate thread that will inevitably last forever.

Interesting.

Ladys first.

If you finish the sentence it says he hasn't taken on the form of a heartless.
He never says he is a heartless. I can say" I'm different from the other fish but I do have more intelligence and I haven't taken on the form of a fish". This lets you believe that I am not a fish. Ansem Report Number 12 also says he has transcended to an existence of only a heart. He further says his body hasn't undergone any transformation. All in all that whole paragraph is saying he isn't a heartless.

"Fan website" I can create a popular accurate website. (If I had the money to blow) And state that Ansem is a roaming heart ,but he is believed to be a heartless. Anyway, just because the majority say one thing doesn't mean the majority is right so really that's not proof.

Obviously this is not true.
He says "Certainly when the heart changes into a Heartless, the body disappears."
In Ansem report 13, Ansem's is referring to the Nobodies. He doesn't say all hearts or every heart. He is establishing at the fact that when the heart changes into a heartless the body disappears. Ansem purposely cast away his body and soul which resulted in it's disappearance.

Ansem made the Heartless symbol. He branded his artificial heartless with it.

Not necessarily true. Namine for example. She doesn't have a corresponding heartless. Oh and Master Xehanort. He possibly has a nobody.

Yeah, the characters of the game assume he is a heartless. Only Ansem would know if he was or was not a heartless. The characters also assumed Ansem Seeker of Darkness was Ansem the Wise.

I'm using the same evidence. XD
Really fan sites, characters' dialogue, and a heartless symbol. I can use the same evidence you present and rearrange it to rebuttal your take on it.

Use all the evidence you need. By presenting evidence, I too gain evidence.

Nah.

Nah I really don't have a sense of fear. Now suspense drives me crazy.

I didn't lose. ^_^
It doesn't matter if your a girl, boy, or your a pet Zebra. It doesn't matter how much evidence you present. It's all about how you present it; therefore I too can present the same evidence in my own favor.

Well this lemonade is a little warm XP

 

Like I said. Everyone believes that he is a heartless because that is what they've been told or what they are likely to believe. Anywho, it's a label that Ansem does not fit.

I'll be waiting Dezzy!

Sora, Kairi, Ansem, Ven, Eraqus, and Master Xehanort.
All are roaming hearts or in other words an existence of only the heart in some point in time.

Do they truly know what a heartless is?! Truthfully the only person that can truly say he's a heartless is Ansem himself.

 

How dull?!

Deny the truth. He has nothing to gain from lying.

Sora was a heartless but was a heart during Chain of Memories towards the beginning of KH 2.

I doubt it. Terra doesn't deny the darkness.

You haven't presented any evidence. You presented your interpretations.

 

Hah I'll play your game.

Ansem Report 10: Yes that's it. The Heartless come from people's hearts, as does the darkness. Is the core of the world's heart the world of the Heartless? I will pursue the answer there and become all knowing. My path is set. I shall seek out the wielder of the Keyblade, and the princesses. My body is too frail for such a journey, but I must do this. I will cast it off and plunge into the depths of darkness.

Ansem Report 12: I have transcended to an existence of only the heart. I should have come back as a Heartless, but there is no sign of such a transformation. My body has surely perished. However, I am different from the other Heartless, keeping the memories of before, and I have not taken on the form of a Heartless. It is evident that there are still many things to be studied. [/B]In order to cross over to the dark realm, which is not this world, you must go beyond the door of Kingdom Hearts, the heart of all worlds. The core connected to the world's heart, the place that will take me to the world of darkness. (I will record the details in another report...) There are still so many unknown worlds. The Realm of the Present...The Realm of darkness. The Realm of light. And, The Realm of in-between. In which one will I find sanctuary?

Secret Ansem Report 10: When a person's heart is stolen, a Heartless is born with no sense of self, and the body and soul left behind give rise to a Nobody.But what if one willingly releases one's heart from one's body? Sora and Xehanort retained their selfhood even after becoming Heartless. Then there are Kairi and Naminé. Kairi was exceptional for having had no darkness within her heart. Also exceptional was that her heart, once freed, migrated to a new vessel—Sora. The combination of the two theoretically unlikely exceptions may be behind this anomaly.

Secret Ansem Report 13: Roxas, Ansem, Naminé... They defy all logic, yet there they are: singular exceptions to the rule. The theories proposed by me and by Organization XIII have been blown to pieces by a handful of strong-hearted individuals.
Sora, Kairi, Riku.

Question about Sora and Kairi's nobody: Roxas and Namine. Post #10

A friend of mine said that sora IS a heartless - IGN Boards Second Post by SuperNathanMan

The Heartless (ハートレス Hātoresu?) are beings of darkness that manifest in two forms, "Pureblood" and "Emblem", the second being created artificially. While most Heartless are in fact manifested hearts, they behave entirely devoid of emotion, and thus were named "Heartless".
Heartless - Kingdom Hearts Wiki - A world of information not accessible by Gummiship

Ansem, Seeker of Darkness, made from the heart of Master Xehanort, is referenced twice in Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep. First, Master Xehanort asks Terra to "Seek out the darkness that upsets the balance", similar to Ansem's title, and second, Terra tells Master Xehanort in Blank Points that "You're gonna get shown the door, old man", referencing Ansem's fate at the end of Kingdom Hearts.
Master Xehanort - Kingdom Hearts Wiki - A world of information not accessible by Gummiship

 

Finally the debating part.

But he didn't. He casted away his body and soul intentionally.

He's comparing himself to a heartless. He pretty much states he is the exact opposite.

Ansem is suggesting that Sora and Ansem SoD forms can't necessarily be classified as a heartless. Hence Exceptions and Anomaly

Then again he never says they are.

The same exact reason that wiki and the other sites means nothing.

Heartless are the manifestation of the darkness within the heart. Ansem is not shrouded in his own heart's darkness.

Just a statement.

Exactly what you have shown me. Your proof is just as invalid as mine.(Maybe except Ansem Report 12) Popular sites are websites created by fans(Not worth mentioning), the emblem was created by Ansem himself(so yeah he has one). The characters in the game are misinformed and haven't done any research on the matter. (They are always in the dark and assume whatever). The other reports are just your interpretations that clearly avoids the fact that Ansem states he is a heart and solely a heart. His body has not changed into a heartless or resemble one. He is an exception to the heartless. He is able to control them because he is a dark entity. His sense of self has stayed with him and the fact that he has memories, emotions, and does not crave other hearts proves it. Every aspect that classifies a heartless does not classify Ansem Seeker of Darkness; therefore his existence is only "the heart."

Ah Starkiller I couldn't persuade him either. Kinda like you! XD

Hah. You have nothing to offer. Your evidence does not support anything. It completely means nothing. If anything your in the same ditch I'm in.

Silly, Heartless can't speak!

Have I shown you the light? (Haha knee slapper)

 

So you've told me for a while.

Your right he's saying that he is one of a kind and different.

It's written by a person's knowledge and interpretation of the game.

But there has been exceptions. All nobodies do not have corresponding heartless.

Yeah apparently.
Yen Sid said nobodies have no emotions and are destined to return to darkness.
Namine and Roxas proved him wrong.

Yen Sid has been wrong.

Actually I already knew Nomura stated Ansem was a heartless. The fact that he has unanswered the questions of how Ansem retained his human form and the fact whose memories or heart Ansem has. Could lead to the possible question "What if Xehanort's Heartless isn't an actual heartless?" I'm not saying Nomura's wrong just without an explanation. I can not settle for him just saying Ansem is Xehanort's Heartless without a full explanation on how. So until then....

Hah you don't believe in roaming hearts! Aww.

You think a like then. XD

It's pretty much interpretations but he plainly states he is not a heartless. Nomura wrote the story and the reports also.

I know. Nomura doesn't say Ansem is Master Xehanort's heartless. He doesn't explain whose heart, memories, or even how Ansem retain his human form. Possibly a thorough explanation could explain what Ansem really is. Nomura may be the creator but he also needs an explanation and without one. I can't or anyone can not simply say Ansem is a heartless when Nomura has not fully explained himself.

Um yeah there is.

Yeah, he was a roaming heart aka his existence was of only the heart. A heart has been seen to retain human form. Sora is the biggest example. Anyway within Xehanort, Master Xehanort and Terra's heart were discussing about ownership of Terra's vessel although within the new vessel their hearts retain their original forms.

Sora was one. Eraqus was also one because his heart migrated within Terra's heart. It basically wasn't a heartless. Eraqus's heart did not return to darkness.

She had an existence of only the heart. Her heart could not disappear into darkness. She found refuge within Sora's heart. Even Kairi's heart retained human form when passing through Sora in the Secret Place. Kairi was an existence of only the heart or a roaming heart.

Exactly.

Sora was a heartless. Kairi did change him back to his original form. Although she did, Sora did not regain his body and soul. His body and soul became Roxas. Sora was just a heart without Roxas. Basically Roxas, Sora's body and soul, did not have a corresponding heartless, a heart manifested in it's own darkness. Sora was a heartless. His heart was covered in it's own darkness but Kairi's light removed this darkness leaving only Sora's heart.

Roxas was his vessel. Sora was just a heart. Hearts harbor other hearts. Sora's heart had harbored Kairi's and Ventus. They did not remain in the vessel. By releasing his heart, Sora released his own, Kairi's heart and Ventus's heart.

Your wrong on that one. Ansem Seeker of Darkness wrote the Ansem's reports. He had memories of his past self as a human. He states his body has surely perished. In the reports before and after, Ansem talks about the Kingdom Hearts of All Worlds and a counterpart of himself called the non-existent ones.

Well Roxas, Namine and Ansem can not be fully classified as a nobody or a heartless. Roxas having a heart, Namine having no body and soul/corresponding heartless, and Ansem retaining memories, emotions, and his human form.

(Welp this was long and fun.) I would like you guys to keep it coming!

 

A roaming heart is just a heart that is not in it's original vessel. At one time, Kairi, Sora, and whomever else were roaming hearts. "Roaming hearts" can also take on it's original appearance hence Terra and Xehanort. They are actually an existence of only the heart but I call them "roaming hearts" because that is what they technically are. Basically when a "roaming heart" reunites with it's body and soul. It becomes whole again and is not an existence of only the heart anymore. An example, Sora and Roxas becoming whole.

Eraqus is a "roaming heart" without his vessel. Eraqus's exist within Terra's heart as only a heart. Kairi was one when she sought refuge within Sora's heart.

Only during the end of KH 1 up till the beginning of KH 2 was Sora a "Roaming Heart"

The heart does wander even in a vessel. (But it's just a nickname I use) It waits to become whole again. For example, "State of Suspension". When a heartless is defeated, the heart goes into a "State of Suspension" waiting to be reunited with the body and soul. "The Roaming Heart" exist as only a heart. It is not whole. So you can say Ventus's heart that is within Sora's heart is in a state of suspension. The only exception would be Master Xehanort. MX has found a way to over power another's heart possibly putting their heart into suspension. That's just a thought. Ventus and Eraqus's hearts were allowed within their host while Master Xehanort wasn't so it's just speculations.

I didn't explain it clearly. But no only when her heart was not in her vessel. She was an existence of the heart "Roaming Heart".

I didn't besides the Secret Ansem Reports, where did you see he had one during this point. Sora released his heart. His heart was reborn as a heartless. His body and soul was reborn as Roxas. By the time Sora regain his original form, Roxas was already created. Roxas had no memories of his past self because Sora retained his memories even after becoming a heartless because of Kairi.

Yes I never said they were of equal existence.

He tends on explaining later on though.

Without fully explaining Ansem's creation as a heartless, he might not be a heartless. Nomura could just as well call him a heartless because the true explanation would give information away that he just doesn't want to say yet. Now, allow the book to be closed and the last chapter read.

 

Yeah there is. -Deja vu-
But like I said only Nomura can fully explain what obviously sets Ansem apart from the heartless.