Capital Punishment

Well, like I said in my previous post. Money rules. And you know that. Capital Punishment is something that we all have to deal with. In other people eyes they think it is wrong, but ain't justice job is to keep order and punish those who done wrong?? That is why she is blindfolded!!

 

Oops -- misread your post Zenrot. You did answer my question.

But by answering it the way you did, you disproved your argument. Nobody wants to be the unlucky guy who gets killed. So why should it be fair as long as it isn't you?

 

Dude, I never said it was fair as long as it isnt me.... I said that I would deal with the situation if it happened to me. NO ONE wants to be killed. Not the murderer OR the innocent person that the muderer ripped from this world on a whim. So this way the murderer gets to feel the same fear he instilled just a few moments before he destoryed someones life.

 

Dear god I warned you all not to do that. That is the most retarded, lazy, and stupid post you have thought up Zenrot. Didn't I say that I would disregard any and alls opinion if they posted that? DIDN'T I!
Zenrot aside I must agree that no one wants to die. But fear tachtics never work out. You wanna rule by fear? Then become a dictator.

 

God dammit... you aren't even making sense anymore. You aren't reading my arguments, you just pick key words and try and make them look evil... Ok here's the deal, you think up a REAL argument that you won't TOTALLY contradict in the next few posts and we can get this going again. You are basically just attacking ME now instead of the issue, which isn't quite how debates work.

Fear tactics actually work alot. Haven't you ever read The Prince? Stop trying to look like you are the savior protecting anyone when you are just personally attacking me.

 

INSOLENT FOOL! You said it yourself. "I never said it was fair as long as it isnt me." You said that and that basically means you are a lazy jerk who really has no right to have a say in this. Before you said you would push the button yet you would have to be prepared to die out. The Prince is a dictators guide book. I read it in World History. Dictatorships only work because of the fear. What you are failing to do is look at ALL views. And you make me look like the enemy! I said not to say something lazy and stupid back around page 6. You had to have read that. You are not under attack. Just your views. Thats what debates are about. And you should feel happy that you pulled me over to you a bit. Here I got an idea. Lets strap you to the chair even though you did nothing wrong. Thats a dictatorship. Many people die under that government for no reason. Still sound good to you?

 

Apparently you are (once again) misunderstanding my words.

the sentence "i never said it wasnt fair as long as it isnt me" is meant to convey the point that I didnt say that.

Sentence Structure : I never = I did not. Said = words that i formed. it wasnt fair as long as it isnt me = the sentence that i never said. That TRUE meaning of that sentece states that I would not change my views even if I was the one falsley imprisoned or executed.

the phrase INSOLENT FOOL! and the statements lazy jerk seem directed at me not my views.

Dictatorship is the 100% perfect form of government. It is the 1 form of government that gives a country the chance to live up to its full potential. BUT as with all forms of government it needs a competant person in charge in order for it to survive. Am i saying i want i dictatorship? no of course not, because everyone wants power and thats what a "democracy" attempts to accomplish, letting everyone have at least alittle power.

Also you seem to be losing a certain level of seriousness in this debate given the all caps phrase INSOLENT FOOL! Please attempt to remain serious. Thank You.

 

That was serious! I am mad. Steamed! Dictatorship doesn't work because that kind of power corrupts. Still this is not a debate on dictatorships. It is on death. Not punsihment in my opinion as you never really learn from it, but death. No matter what it is for death is death and should never be treated lightly. You must be careful when invoking it because unlike most things death doesn't allow for error. If you make a mistake you live with that for the rest of your life. Could you live with that kind of pain? To see a person know they are about to die. To see there face in your head before the hoad goes on. To here them say again that they were innocent. To feel there fear. And all this made worse when you later find that they didn't commit the crime, but the some one else had been caught. Could you live with that?

 

So I guess this is time for me to join in.

Well Zenrot do have a point with Dictatorship. If you force people then they might actually become stronger. They might become the best out of the best, because you gave the fear. Fear motivates people. Fear consumes a person's state of mind. Fear pushes you to your limit. In the world we live now, Democracy favors because it lets us rest. It has rules and regulations. It have laws. And people can obtain power equally. And that there is no fire constantly burning our asses. But it allows us to be lazy and that lazy leads to crime. Most people who committed these crimes are because that they are lazy.

So yeah, both you have good arguments.

 

Yes. Easily. What I couldn't live with would be knowing that someone who put that fear into someone else was still on the street. And why did they do it? for what? Kicks? Not getting caught for rape? because they wanted their stuff? Also I can keep arguing the someone might be innocent debate as long as you want because it seems to me like that's the only vantage point you sort of have left, and that makes me pretty happy.

 

Well that's a doubleyou-tee-eff moment.

There's a fine line between being passionate about your beliefs, and being passionate about hating another person's...it's a bit tough for me to see which side of the line you stand on.

 

About the middle I think.
As for you Zenorot, I feel that that is the ONLY card that can be played well. God doesn't have a thing to do with this as he only uses DIVINE judgement, not physical.
Remember there are good reasons for killing someone. Self-Defense comes to mind. When it comes down to it you have to ask yourself, "Should I be the poor sod that dies, or that bugger trying to waste me." The problem is that self-defense is hard as hell to prove.
I have no doubt in my mind that that is going to et shot down. Raise yourself in my eyes zenrot by thinking long and hard before posting. Shoot this one down for good, or remain ignorant. Your choice.

 

I am confused by the god comment, because I don't remember anyone saying that, but maybe you were saying that it isnt a viable reason for you to use which would make sense. If that is one of your points let me know and I will respond.

Are we doing self defense again? Because, I'm fairly sure we have done this. Anyway, the circumstances for a hard to prove self defense are actually slim. Let's run through this:

Robbery Self Defense: Someone has broken into your home and has a gun, and you kill him. Obviously its a slim chance that you know this person so it cant be premeditated, and it shouldn't be hard to prove that he broke into your home. The worst you could get was manslaughter, which isnt punishable by the death penalty.

Now lets check the harder case of someone you know: There are no witnesses and someone you know attacks you and tries to kill you, but you kill him first. You call the police and say that you were attacked, and you fended off and slew your attacker. In court, they look at the evidence such as the wounds on you and the wounds on your attacker, the location of the crime, and the possible motives. I suppose its possible that you could be convicted of murder after the heavy investigation but its highly unlikely a case that isnt 100% clear would result in death, HIGHLY unlikely.

Quite frankly the death penalty isn't used overly often, only in severe and deep cases, which is what I stand for. Also, I don't bear any animosity towards you, so please try to refrain from doing that to me because I am merely stating my point and you are doing the same. In no way have I done anything you haven't.

 

capital punishment is like how the mayen's just sacrificed millions of people a day... it's horrible... if I was on my first offense of doing any crime, I would rather live then be executed for doing a simple crime (this is just an example of why capital punishment is wrong)

 

Um... did you just play down murder as "eh, its just a simple crime, whatever".? Also, im pretty sure that mayAn sacrifice really has nothing to do with this. In no way do we have now, or the mayans have then for that matter, millions of people a day to kill. we would be a barren country in a few weeks IF that much. Anyways... before you have a sensible argument past killing is wrong (because that has already been debunked) just wait before you say something.

 

Some could disagree with that. What if you were drunk when the murder took place and you didn't know right from wrong at the time? What if it was an accident but you were proved wrong and sent onto deathrow for murder? There are a million and one scenarios and I could take all year by adressing each and every one of them.

 

You could make scenarios forever and so could I. That doesn't put you at some advantage or something. And if you are drunk, that is your fault, and you face the punishment regardless since you chose to get drunk.

 

Thats called being crazy. The definition in court is "Unable to descern Right from Wrong." In other words ou can't decide that what you did was good or bad. Its a common thing. Lets try this.
You are married to a beutiful wife. Good for you. You have kids. Better for you, one daughter and one son. You leave on a trip to conduct some bussiness so your wife is staying behind to watch the kids till you get back. You come back diring the night and see a man run out of your house, jump in his car, and hightail it. You go in and see your wife and son murdered, and our daughter stripped and her throat slit. What is your reaction? You can not honeslty say you don't want revenge. You would lose all control over your thoughts and you would become something primal. You find the man and make him pay, killing him. Now you are in court. You know in your heart that it was right but you also know that you could have thought. You also know that thought at the time was impossible. You were on top of the world and some man came and tool that from you.
How do you think about that.

 

fist of all i dont know what point of view that Im supposed to be arguing from but, im assuming im the person who's wife and children were killed:

Hell yeah I would want revenge. If I somehow managed to find him oh hell yeah I would kill him. Thats why laws have a "crime of passion" clause where you recieve a less serious penalty. However, its still murder and you still will recieve some penalty.

Also, how is that scenario pro-life? Because now your saying it was right that the man killed him so he got what he deserved, which is the same principle as capital punishment.

 

You twisted my words. I meant that you had "Lost it" by not being able to tell right from wrong. The mistake was that the right thing to do was to let the cops arrest him but the right way from the mans view would be to fry him. But crimes of passion are hard to prove. And a lot of lawyers argue from that view for all murderers.