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Why is math "uncool?"

Discussion in 'Mature Discussion' started by Mike, Jun 7, 2012.

  1. Mike

    Mike Member

    Thought I'd start up a topic of my own. I've noticed that many people in Western Culture have an aversion to Mathematics.

    So I'd like to ask...why? It's a question I've asked a lot and honestly, cannot answer.
     
  2. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Because harder math such as Calculus is difficult. Therefore the people who have an easier time with it are people who (In a stereotypical setting) would be considered nerds. And nerds are stereotypically uncool.

    Of course, this is just from looking at a high school point of view. And that specific point of view is fairly immature.

    As for myself though, I just hate the harder math (Such as the previously mentioned Calculus). And it really sucks that I hate it since I decided to major in Chemistry in college and therefore require those annoying maths.
     
  3. Cameron

    Cameron New Member

    I don't really think that it's because of the social image in general, because if you're handsome + smart, that's going to get you the ladies. Being unattractive and smart, that's the image of the "nerds" what people are usually pictured as.

    IMO, it's just that when it comes to harder and longer mathematics, people aren't really interested in learning/doing them (if the case is that someone is intelligent enough to master such mathematics), because the way this world works nowadays is that people are lazy and you can get easily to larger paychecks even if you don't have the wits.
     
  4. Mike

    Mike Member

    DW: From what I've seen of chemistry (albeit, a specialized little niche), I don't imagine you'd need a whole ton of calculus. It's likely a pre-requisite course, prescribed in an attempt to develop your 'mathematical maturity,' and critical thinking skills. I think Analytic Geometry is a far more useful subject, for VSEPR theory and so forth. Or maybe it's for the physics aspect.

    Anyway, you've unearthed an interesting question. Why are nerds stereotypically 'uncool?' At the post-secondary level, nerds are quite popular given that so many people want to pick their brain/steal answers. Additionally, in many European countries, math is a respected subject. In our society, you never hear someone say "when I grow up, I want to be a mathematician!" but this is something people aspire to, and a lot of the world's best work comes from Europe.

    I've never understood why people found it socially acceptable to be bad at arithmetic (let alone mathematics). It's like someone being proud of the fact they can't read.
     
  5. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    I love "nerds". Who made up that word anyway... but back to the point. "Nerds" are actually the one who help with:

    Track of Government money, Computer Programming, Taxes and Bills, High-Tech Technology, etc.

    That is just a few, simple ideas for me to throw out. I love math but there are parts of it in there where I just sit there and say "What is the point in this?" Some parts you just cannot understand at all but there are some where you may end up confuse and it is better to have a one-on-one study with the teacher so that you may understand it some more. I need math in the Video Game Career since we will be using Geometry (Buuuuu. Geometry) for it. Like Desert said, there are some where we have to use something that we never like in the first place and hope that we don't need it but only to realize that we actually do need it.

    -.- And I don't care who say that "we don't need math". The ACTs say different. For my class, you need over a 21 to consider that you are ready for math in college. <_< And society is just getting dumb for saying that we don't need arithmetic. Just another way to show that they are just following.
     
  6. Destiny

    Destiny Guest

    To be simple and plain(and because I'm on my phone)

    Math involves a lot of work, and I don't care if I say it or not, but people in the western world are lazy. They don't like doing all the work that is involved in math to come to an answer they probably care even less about.

    Then there's others(like myself) who can't view math. They just don't understand it and don't see a use to it.


    (later today I may extend on this post or make another in detail, I'm currently on my phone)
     
  7. Mike

    Mike Member

    KS: Do you actually not see a use for math? D:

    Brandon: You need a whole ton of mathematics for programming/game design. 3-D environments are all functions (in fact, in 3-D gaming they're 2-variable functions). Domain and range, restrictions, adding/multiplying functions together, reciprocal functions, all that jazz. If you're trying to make a certain curve (or surface) to model the shape of X-character's nose, knowing calculus (second year university calculus for 3-D) will help a lot as you can reverse-engineer functions that have a desired shape.

    This is likely why your math requirement is so steep.
     
  8. Destiny

    Destiny Guest

    It all depends on what you do in life.

    I see only a bare minim understanding for basic math. The understanding of percentages probably the highest for the use of dealing with money. But it all goes down to what career path.

    I plan on going into music education. Basic math is used in music where as I'll need to know some statistics for education, but as for figuring some more advance trigonometry, I see no use for it.
     
  9. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26

    Domain and range and all of that I have learned and have no problem. :confused: and what do you mean restrictions? I might have already learn that but when you said that, my mind was thinking of the graph version. -.- I took Pre-Calculus and that was just awful. I passed... but it was just awful. It had some Trigonometry that I know and some Algebra but some were just plain bogus. I don't know if I can take on Calculus but I know that once I step into college, I'll make sure to be well prepare for Calculus.
     
  10. Mike

    Mike Member

    KS: While I understand your point, mathematics is everywhere! And while you can certainly teach music without knowing or caring about this stuff, it makes the subject come alive and just ignites so much enthusiasm to learn about this stuff! I'm just going to ramble on for a while haha, feel free to ignore it, or read it if you're interested.

    To give you an example relevant to art (which is probably the hardest connection to make): Ratios/Proportions. The proper ratios are somehow aesthetically pleasing, that is, the human brain likes certain numbers. Throughout history, people have made paintings that had 'nice looking measurements.' Upon studying these paintings mathematically, it turns out that we like a very mysterious number called the golden ratio (approximately 1.618), so if one side of a painting is 10cm, the other looks best if it's 16.18cm in length. The golden ratio shows up in so many places it's ridiculous, including human anatomy (the ratio of the upper arm to the entire arm is roughly the golden ratio, and a whole bunch of other similar things), which truly is at the heart of art, be it painting or sculpting.


    Now one for music: musical instruments were historically created by trial and error. People listened to what sounded 'nice' and calibrated piano string in such a way as to produce those pleasant tones. The 8 note scale was produced and became standard because the notes are pleasant and harmonize well.

    However, if we look back on history and try to study the mathematics of music, a beautiful pattern emerges. The ratio of successive notes/not sure what to call them (Fourths/Fifths etc.) on a piano yield some very beautiful mathematics. They all follow a certain mathematical curve called a logarithm! Which is very strange, you might expect a perfect fourth to have a ratio of 4/3, or some such fraction, but it's actually 2^(5/12) = 1.3348.

    Now why do we care? That's always the question isn't it? Well imagine being able to mathematically determine which notes sound good when played together. Not only can we 'learn the rules' as you would in a Harmony course (which were created again, through trial and error by some of the greats like Bach), you can literally make formulas and solve equations to do this. Furthermore, you can figure out weird things, like which tones between C and C# sound pleasant. What if you then made a more sophisticated piano that included these notes? What kind of music could you produce?

    What if you put all this information into a computer program? Could it generate music? Would such music ever be as beautiful as music composed by a human being?

    I don't know, I feel like I'd like to talk about this stuff to my students if I were a music teacher. Even though I would never do the mathematics, or determine these weird numbers, having an appreciation for it, imo, is key.

    Restrictions are numbers which you cannot plug into your function. For f(x) = 1/x, the domain is: x is a Real number, such that x =\= 0. Hence, x = 0 is a restriction of our function.

    There are usually three types you'd need to know by the end of first year university (it may differ at your particular highschool).

    1) Dividing by zero can't happen (like above)
    2) You can't square root a negative number
    3) You can't take the log of a negative number or zero.

    Pre-calculus is the course that covers a lot of the stuff I mentioned in my previous post...it really is relevant to programming (perhaps not while you're a student, but it can save you tons of time when you're trying to sit down and actually make something).
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2012
  11. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    Most Chemistry doesn't require anything higher than some Algebra/Pre-Cal. But my Chem teacher was telling me that there was some branch (Probably Quantum Chemistry if it exists) that requires Calculus.

    Because the opposite of a nerd (At least in a standard high school setting) is the person who does all the sports and stuff. And those people are always the cool kids.

    Because people like to shoot for the bare minimum.
     
  12. Kitty

    Kitty I Survived The BG Massacre Staff Member Administrator

    Personally, I've always really enjoyed English/literature and history, and math has never gripped me the same way. I was always an overachiever in school, so I took all of the AP calc and statistics and trig classes and all that, but I never liked it. And I was also usually one of the few girls in my classes, so maybe there's some gender issues in play, too.

    I think there's also laziness in play here. When you can grab a calculator and just get the answer, understanding and being good at the math might not seem so important. And though math is everywhere and I use it in some form every day, it's mostly basic addition/subtraction/multiplication/division, and I doubt I could even remember how to do half the stuff I've learned over the years.

    And I think that in general, math just doesn't seem "fun" to people. I don't remember my elementary school years very well, but secondary math classes were all just, 1) Teacher lectures for an hour, mostly using an overhead 2) Teacher assigns a buttload of homework I'd rather not be doing. Even when I liked my math teachers, I can't really remember ever having fun in class. Maybe we should have done more counting with M&Ms or something. ^_^
     
  13. Mike

    Mike Member

    The responses seem to be fairly consistent, so let me ask:

    What makes a subject fun? Why are people more engaged in say, literature or the arts?
     
  14. Desert Warrior

    Desert Warrior Well-Known Member

    A subject is fun if it grabs somebody's interest. Obviously somebody who is interested in music would find music classes more fun (Or at the very least more interesting) compared to other classes.

    For example, I've chosen Chemistry over Biology (Haven't tried Physics yet) because the experiments I've done in Chemistry are more interesting than the experiments I've done in Biology. Some experiments in Chemistry I've found boring, but almost every experiment in Biology I found boring. I just find Chemistry more enjoyable while Biology is fairly boring to me.
     
  15. Napoléon

    Napoléon Kuroko Fangirl

    Well, I guess it's my turn to put some input into this.

    I love math, it's my all time favourite subject (a long with physics, which involves more practise, but it's still quite enjoyable) because for me, math makes sense. Things that seem strange or weird don't interest me because it's simply odd, where as math feels constant. I loved calculus this past year and I actually looked forward to doing my homework. To be honest, my parents want me to go into medecine because I do well in science since I have an eidetic memory which allows me to have an easy time retaining a large amount of information, but I also told them that I'm considering becoming a mathematician.

    Now, I've been tutoring students at school, with respect to math, for three years now and the degree of understanding varies significantly. One of the key things I notice though is that people seem to fear fractions, which seems strange to me because they're easy to work with, but it all depends on how people learn. I honestly think it's a problem with the education system (and I'm talking about the Canadian one) because people who have bad experiences with math, tend to hate the class. I've never met a person who loved math, yet was terrible at it; The two seem to go hand in hand. I think I've gone off on a tangent though.

    So why is math viewed as uncool ? I think the main reason behind it is that a large amount of the population are only average when it comes to math, which causes them to not understand it making them deem it as being "stupid and pointless." How ironic. Also, it doesn't help that the media portrays people who do well in math as being socially unattractive in the movies.

    What makes a class fun ? As Desert Warrior said, it honestly depends on your interest. If you like complex puzzles and things that make your mind work, math would probably be a good fit for you. If you enjoy expressing yourself through literature, art, ect, you'll probably end up liking classes that center around those things.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2012
  16. miscellaneous2711

    miscellaneous2711 New Member

    As the programmer on my schools robotics team I entirely accept this post. Making sensors and motors do what you want is no easy task. It also requires some pretty serious math. Thank you for understanding
     
  17. Mike

    Mike Member

    There are many subjects I find difficult, and yet still find interesting. I for instance, am no literary genius, though I can appreciate the work some people put into analyzing novels and fiction, and I am fascinated by it and love listening to others speak about what they enjoy.

    And so I'm still genuinely confused: Why do we embrace this mindset? Why do we reject what is difficult, and more importantly, why is it not only socially acceptable, but encouraged?
     
  18. ~When It Rains~

    ~When It Rains~ New Member

    Due to the fact it's im human nature to be lazy thats my own opinion at least.
     
  19. EtherealSummoner

    EtherealSummoner Lamentations 3:22-26


    Because the Devil does not want us to be smart! XD Just kidding on that part. But anyway, many people reject anything that is difficult and form how we are growing... in a lazy state, we now want to take the easy way out which is not the best way. Math is encouraged but then people try to say that it is not and try to find ways to get around it.
     

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