Light-Based Villain?

... Silly boy. There is no posts in this thread where someone is insulting someone, trolling, being disrespectful or in any other way as to where I should infract or ban anyone. This thread is where someone discuss about their own views about a debate. Nothing more. Why should I ban someone who made a thread solely for that?

I think you mean light based villain. But anyway, this is what I was thinking somewhat in that perspective. As for the "Xehanort Saga", I can debate that it was going to be a Xehanort Saga but it started with Kingdom Hearts 2 first.

 

Wrong, Angel. The Xehanort Saga includes anything to do with Xehanort. If Aqua was to be corrupted because of Xehanort, it is still the Xehanort Saga. The Xehanort Saga ends when everything to do with Xehanort is resolved.

And I'm going to have to disagree with your opinion that there won't be a light-based villain; did you notice how BBS was a lot more mature than the original KH? KH is evolving as its fans get older, so it won't stay shallow (light=good dark=bad) forever. Mickey even acknowledged that darkness itself is not bad, and Eraqus was corrupted by light. It's possible.

You're not breaking any rules, so he has no grounds to ban you; the staff are fair on this site.

 

Not necessarily! When Xehanort cease to exist or stops in his ambitions that will be the end of the Xehanort Saga. If Aqua were to be corrupt by Xehanort and she became the main antagonist then it would be the Aqua Saga not Xehanort.

The Aqua Saga wouldn't last very long, so if Aqua was to become a light-based villain, it would most likely occur at some point before or immediately after Xehanort's death. Think about the final boss of KH3D; the second to last boss is generally considered the real climax of the game, yet the final boss was dramatic and could've been made emotional if it was expanded on more.

Tragic ending is about all that I can tell.

I'm replaying BBS currently and really, the entire game is darker. Ven, Terra and Aqua split up, travel around on their own, meet up again at Radiant Garden, argue and split up, travel around some more, meet up one last time, and then face tragic ends. Compare this to the original KH; Sora, Donald and Goofy traverse worlds, making friends whilst searching for Sora's friends.

Then again, I think your wrong. The game is suppose to target a certain age group. With Disney, I'm sure; it'll stay around E +10 meaning (light=good, dark=evil).

In England, the games are 12+. Just thought I'd throw that out there. And low age group doesn't necessarily mean simple plots. You're saying that Kingdom Hearts will remain simple. KH became complicated a long time ago.

Besides Eraqus's has darkness within his heart as well. He could have been influenced by the darkness and had us led to believe it was light.

I'm not sure I even want to try to counter this point. You say that Eraqus, who was quite clearly corrupted by light and hated darkness with a passion, was actually only tricking us the whole time. I don't think I fully understand what you were getting at with that point.

I'm sure that he didn't plain out and say that. Probably something more of the line 'one can't exist without the other'.

Right before the final boss of KHII. I haven't got the direct quote, but it's something along the lines of "darkness isn't bad; it's only as evil as the people who use it."

Eh possibly and possibly not. According to the Keyblade War story, Light is most definitely affiliated with good and darkness with evil.

It was said that light was sought after, which caused the Keyblade War. Never was it stated the darkness was evil; only that those who fought using darkness were corrupt, which links nicely in with my paraphrased Mickey quote.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
King Mickey
Mickey: Aw, we don't hate it. It's just kinda...scary. But the world's made of
light AND darkness. You can't have one without the other, 'cause darkness is
half of everything. Sorta makes ya wonder why we are scared of the dark.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curse you, Legacyyyyyyy!

XD Okay then.

If the Aqua was the main antagonist, it could go on as long as the creators' wanted. The rest of that bit, I don't quite follow or remotely remember the order of bosses; I fought in 3D. The last boss that I remember fighting is Julius but your talking about the main story.

I don't think Aqua fulfills the quota for a main antagonist. She's not as evil, as sly or as menacing(or as damn tenacious) as Master Xehanort. She would make a good final boss, but not main antagonist.

Not much different from the first game. Kairi was a lifeless shell and Riku was off the deep end (possessed). Either way, all three were separated as far as they knew.

In the first game, Donald and Goofy were there to brighten the mood. In BBS, the characters were alone.

The people were bathed in the light. They lived in peace and prosperity. Then few began to seek this all powerful light and then darkness was born in their hearts. This created war, the separation of the worlds, and the loss of the ultimate light, Kingdom Hearts.

Light looks good while Dark seems evil to me.

The point is that Eraqus was corrupted by light, just as Xehanort was darkness. It's entirely possible, if slightly unlikely, for a light-user to be the next villain or final boss. But nothing in the KH series is particularly 'likely', is it?

Also, I'm going to raise another point. Darkness itself is not bad, correct? The fact that it is used in bad ways, as with the Keyblade Wars, is another matter. Now, let's look back to the original post. After the Xehanort Saga, when Kingdom Hearts is restored, people will still not be accepting of darkness; as your quote outlines, people are and always will be afraid of the dark. Even after the balance is restored, people will not be fond of it, especially after whatever happens with Xehanort. It's plausible that our light-based villain will appear next saga.

Not what I was throwing out there. Basically, 'the closer you are to the light, the greater your shadow becomes'. I'm saying; that he was so blinded by the light that he didn't realize his own darkness.

Ah, I understand you now. But there's an issue with that. In the fight against him in BBS, he only uses light, not darkness. Thus, him simply being corrupted by the light seems the likely option.




I don't quite follow or remotely remember the order of bosses; I fought in 3D.

Google.

 

Tsk tsk tsk, Legacy. Getting all arrogant after proving one thing.

...I can't counter any of your current points Legacy, so you've proven that darkness is evil. You've proven that Eraqus was never corrupted by light and that it is impossible for our light-based villain to be corrupted by the light, as light itself is good. I concede that you've crushed the whole "possessed by light" thing, but you haven't even considered at least one alternate possibility.

What you've failed to prove is the actual question: "Is a light-based villain an illogical idea?" Don't boast until you've disproved every possibility.

Your logic is shaky. I'll explain why:

Let's say someone was absolutely certain that destroying darkness was the right thing to do. They did it with the best of intentions, completely sure that killing all darkness-users, good or bad, was the right thing to do. They'd be a villain, yes? But would they be corrupted by darkness if they believed they were doing the right thing? An example: Sora was never corrupted by his heart's darkness, yet he hates his enemies with a passion. He was never corrupted because he knows he's doing the right thing by fighting evil. Does that make sense?

I think it's safe to presume that if someone was so deluded that they thought that what they were doing was the moral, selfless, just thing to do, the darkness wouldn't grow in their heart. Now what if that deluded person happened to be Aqua? That is a possibility. She's suffered so much because of the darkness that it would be believable if she whole-heartedly believed that destroying darkness was the right thing to do. It would be 'misconduct', but the darkness would have nothing to corrupt.

In summary, if you can find something which disproves this: "Aqua could be a light-based villain if she believed from the bottom of her heart that getting rid of darkness is the right thing to do.", then you've won this.

 

This is out of your guys' current...baffle...but what if, even far after the Xehanort Saga, that Sora was the light-based villain? Think about it. Sora is what seems like pure light and good. But what if, somewhat like Reprise said, that Sora was so good, that he sought to eliminate all darkness? That would thus make him a light-based villain. Considering that, since Riku uses the darkness, you would play as him, venturing to stop Sora from breaking the balance. I didn't explain it the best I could, but you may get the gist of what I mean.

 

Let's say that she was trying to eliminate darkness because of a genuine desire to save the world from sin. How is that decision being influenced in any way by her darkness? She's killing people who use darkness because that's what she believes is best for the worlds and for everyone's happiness. Is that not, to a lesser extent, exactly what Sora does?

Anyway, why don't you believe she'd be doing this for others?

Your point about how 'somewhere along the line, evil influenced her decision' doesn't hold water, I'm afraid. It doesn't matter what influenced her so long as she believes she's doing a good thing.

A good insight into herself? If she was delusional, a good insight wouldn't make a difference.

Fighting an unwinnable battle? Whatever do you mean? Killing darkness users is still evil, but if Aqua doesn't realise it's evil, then the darkness is not corrupting her. Light is good, correct? If she's killing people and doing villainous things out of what she believes to be selflessness, she'd be a light-based villain.

 

You're arguing that someone couldn't possibly be selfless if they're killing people, right? That argument doesn't hold water, air, or even land, I'm afraid. After suffering in the RoD for ten or so years, it's plausible(as I said before) that she would want darkness to disappear so that no one will ever have to suffer again. Is that so unreasonable?

Yes, if she were to kill, she'd be corrupted- but not by darkness. If she genuinely believed that she was doing good to the worlds and wasn't destroying the darkness out of greed, envy, or maliciousness, she wouldn't have darkness in her heart, would she? It seems as if you're dancing around the question, or maybe I'm just not being clear enough. I'm talking of corruption in KH terms, not dictionary definitions.

An example: Riku was jealous in KH1, and that jealousy was what corrupted him. Maleficent was corrupted by greed. Now if Aqua truly believed that what she was doing was for the overall good of mankind, how could she possibly be corrupted by the darkness? That is the question I'm asking; I'm not asking whether it would be the moral thing to do, I'm asking how she could be corrupted by darkness.

 

If I genuinely believe that I am God then I surely can't make a mistake. Right?

That's a ridiculous statement and you know it. Not only does it have nothing to do with light or darkness or KH, but you're twisting my point.

Okay! Riku genuinely believed that he was doing the utmost best for Kairi. He was corrupted by darkness. Eraqus genuinely believed Ventus must not exist in order to save all worlds from Xehanort. The guy was corrupted by darkness. If Aqua were to go to such drastic measures, I would believe that she was corrupted by darkness. Is that the kind of answer you were looking for?

In Kingdom Hearts, generally when lives are in danger. The villain is corrupted by darkness regardless of their beliefs. If we take beliefs into account then I'm sure every villain would genuinely believe nothing is wrong with their actions.

Riku took his anger out on Sora, knowing that Sora was innocent. Xehanort wants destruction simply for the sake of destruction, which in itself is terrible. All of the people who were corrupted have gone a little further than just being wrong and not realising it.

Also, Eraqus never stated that he was corrupted. The quote was, "my heart has darkness" and he hated darkness till the end, so it's only natural that he'd say something like that after realising he's wrong.