Abortion

But they're not sick or anything. They just want to not be pregnate anymore. It isn't help. It's serving people want's.

 

I don't believe everything the church says. I believe what God says. He says murder is wrong and that makes abortion wrong. My cousin did'nt give an abortion because he did'nt want to be a murderer.

 

Regardless, they are requesting medical attention. Distinguishing between peoples wants and needs can be in such cases extremeley difficult. Back to my point which you didn't take, if I woman realizes she is not capable of providing a decent life for this child at this point of time in her life, and having the baby could lead to death etc - then does she want the abortion or need the abortion? Again, it's arguing semantics, they aren't "sick", but providing an abortion could easily be construed as "help".

Also Demon, that is essentially what the church said "Condoms are evil", "God is against contraception" etc. Anything you hear about god's will has gone through the church first.

 

That is a lie. I don't have a problem with condoms. But when the sperm and the egg comes together then it has a soul, it is human. That's when I have a problem.

I'm sorry but what God says is always true. Wether you believe in him or not.

 

What i'm getting at is how can you distinguish between what the church says, and what God says? Also, it would be better to say "I beleive what god says is true, whether you beleive or not". Until uncontrovertable proof can be laid down by either side the debate remains open and nothing can be proven. It is therefore wise to keep an open mind, or at the very least accept that others don't necarserilly believe the the same thing as you and therefore it is (if nothing else) courteous not tell them they are wrong. That is how the rational world operates.

 

But there is proof he exist. We know Jesus was a real man, we know that there was a great flood that happened around the time of Noah. Plus the prophicies spoken of in Revelations are happening today and have been happening for the past 100 years. The bible predicted that Israel would become a nation again and it did in 1946. The bible predicted that their would be a huge increase in knowledge happening in a short time, and in the past 200 years we have learned things many things, created so much new technology and such. The bible says that earthquake and volcanic stuff would increase and scientist said that they have recently. The bible says the anti-christ will use a world wide finacial system and Eroupe is working on something like that.

There is your evidence, wether you choose to be ignorant of it is your choice but you and all those you do not believe in God will be sorry.

 

I could also throw out quotes from the bible that contradict each other, things that never happened, etc but that wouldn't serve a purpose, because you have effectively sidestepped my question:
How can you distinguish between what the church says, and what God says? When the Church claim that god beleives/has said it, and you've already denounced one of the many things they've said as lies.

I would also ask what about other religions? What about their various prophecies that have come to pass? They don't necarserilly beleive in the same god, or they may beleive in multiple gods - they have plenty of "proof" supporting their religions aswell, otherwise there wouldn't be the mass worldwide followings. What about them?

 

She wants it. There is always another option, like adoption. But the whole thing of the possibility of her death... Well, I'm not sure at all about that. I can't decide on what I think is right in that scenario.

So Europe is the Anti-Christ.............

 

First of all, I follow what my heart tells me. My heart tells me that God sees abortion as wrong.

As for other religions, who is to say that all religions don't worship the same God? With translation errors and twistes in stories then mabey things about God were twisted in their truth. But all religions probably unknowlingly worship the same God, they only think their Gods are different.

 

Then why on earth would god go to the trouble of turning a whole city into salt, that where indulging in vices and praying to idols and other gods ? The bible makes it very clear on several occasions that you should worship no other god, so why would this benevolent omnipotent being create conflicting religions? For instance religions that revolve around polytheism? This goes totally against the monotheistic structure and God's constant referal to "one god".

 

I remember once thinking about an answer to that, even though it'd be wrong.

I had thought that God was the main god in all those polythiestic religions, and that every other god in that religion was an angel or demon.

 

Like I said, people chose to twist the truth which led to many different religions. God did'nt twist the truth, people did.

My heart tells me that God exist. I always follows my heart, because your heart is your guide. I may never have physical proof of God, but I don't need it to believe in him. I talk to him like a friend when I pray, I ask him to do what is best for me and punish me when I do wrong. Because something inside me tells me that He is there and he is real. It's such a hard feeling to explain.

 

I respect that, and don't mean to belittle your beleifs. I consider myself an agnostic and feel whether god exists or not is irrelevant in my lifetime as humanity simply uses religion as a social, political and economic tool. Regardless, I'll always strive to do what I think is best, and should god be indeed both omnipotent and benevolent (and indeed reasonable, as unfortunatly 'his' zealots are not) he will fully understand my perspective.

To counter your point Desert, if that was so, then the bible wouldn't consider polytheistic religions as inherently evil, and a blight upon the mentalities of "oppressed" people.

 

Actually, they could if they mistook how it worked. Like they could think that the polytheistic religions worshiped multiple gods instead of one god (that is saying if the thing I thought up was actually right). Miscommunication is a blight upon humanity.

Also, if we're going to keep on talking about religion, it needs to be moved to the Religion thread. We're getting off topic, and that is spamming.

 

People created religion, not God. When did God ever say anything about religion? Not once.

So religion is not something I really like. It's just God and Jesus I believe in. Very soon, the major prophecies will play themselves out and the end will come soon. I will be rewarded for my loyalty to God.

 

well it's not spamming, but it is off-topic

(Also god is said to have mentioned religion and false gods many times within the bible)
I meant to bring it back on course at the end of that post, looks like I forgot. Anywhoo, where were we. Something along the lines of is not to deny the right to choose more selfish than to be forced into what is essentially your job description, despite your other beleifs

 

But abortion is being selfish to the baby. Your taking it's life, that is selfish.

There are other options, like transfering the embryo to another woman or adoption.

 

It isn't more selfish, because a doctor's basic job description is to heal people. Somebody who works at an abortion clinic on the other hand, their job description is to help with abortion.

 

Indeed, but in reality neither of those options are really viable. I myself would have severe reservations of having the embryo transferred and there are complications. Bringing a baby into the world just to drop him into the adoption system? That comes across as far more irresponsible and cruel than essentially killing a bundle of cells before it can "feel".

- edit-
Yeah I was just being flippant Desert. But we've already established the fact that if it's against your beleifs and your not working in an abortion clinic, you are not forced to carry one out. All doctors take an oath, and as with everything it is open to interpretation. A doctor can refuse to take part in an abortion and the woman can seek help from another pro-abortion doctor.

 

But it's not a bundle of cells. It's a human life, it has human DNA and it should be considered a person. Besides a doctor I know was adopted and she's a doctor, so she turned out well. So don't tell me that adoption is irresponsible.