Abortion

But then if you put it that way it becomes a fairy tale, which you could alter however you wish:

"Once upon a time, a woman was pregnant. She and her husband were different races, and because of cultural differences decided to split up. The next visit to the doctor revealed that the baby's heart stopped (but didn't die...hopefully you get why this makes sense without an explanation), and then the man and woman were compelled to get back together. The baby's heart beat on, and they lived happily ever after."

Despite my snide presentation of this story, it's an allegedly true one. But the point is, when does it become fact, and when is it heresay?

Fact: The woman died in labour
Fact: The child did not
Heresay: The child died x number of months later (irrelevant)
Heresay: The child died because it didn't have a mother (impossible to prove)

Besides, if the woman's family was cruel to the baby or some other such reason for the child to die for lack of having a mother, it becomes the actions of those people (not the 'not abortion') that must be accounted for when determining responsibility.

 

First off. Wow. You guys went way ahead. Second, sorry ebal for the double post. Now on with the show.
I believe you might to change the heresay to relevant. The child might have been unhealthy from the the issues of a mother lost. Also a baby must have certain items in the mothers milk. After a short period of time without it the child dies. No option.
Next up is the fact that if you don't believe you can take the preganancy then abort it. No reason to feel ashamed about it because who are we? People that never went through with it, to stop you?
Finally I have to agree with the people going on about how the father has just as big a say. I also have to disagree. A rape victim pregnant means that the raper is the daddy. Oops. And a girl who got the moment but then got diched, pregnant, gets the whole say. Family should not be able to get you to do shit. They are not the ones pregnant there fore they have no say about how it is dealt with.

 

I do agree with you in those two situations. What I refer to is a father who is willing to stay with the mother. A couple, boyfriend/girlfirend, husband/wife, whatever. If she get's pregnant, he has just as much say as she does.

And I have to say that scenarios like the one Yukou mentioned are why I believe that abortion should be legal. If the mother is in danger, than it does become a viable option, in my opinion anyway. However, if c-section is an option that eliminates the riske of delivery, or at least reduces them enough, than I still say go for it.

Out of curiosity, and I know this is off topic a bit, but was the families beef with a c-section? Does that actually make you a bad person to have a baby delivered via surgery?

 

I am most curious about that. My mom had my sister as a c-section and her parents were fine with it.

 

I guess some people don't consider it natural birth or something along those lines. My sister was a C-section also.

 

Hmph. Parents don't get a say. They oughta but out.

 

In regards to the C-section...I've been assuming that the woman HAD the C-section, and because of this, bled to death.

Heck, if she didn't have the C-section then this isn't a lesson to abort; it's a lesson to OBEY YOUR DOCTOR.

@Zerieth: (Heresay doesn't mean irrelevant...it means unprovable) No, it's heresay because it's a 'your word against mine' sort of thing. The baby MIGHT have done this, or MIGHT have done that. Maybe the baby died because someone dropped it down the stairs. Are you going to disprove that? ...Can't right? Then it's just heresay.

The keyword to look for is the word "Maybe" or "Perhaps." Because then it's not even a true story anymore; may as well be a fairy tale.

 

^^Actually, it's been shown (correlationally) that infants who were weaned early have an increased incidence of Type 1 diabetes (ie. the earlier they're weaned, the more likely they are to get it)...probably something relating to antibodies and pancreatic infections.

But of course, if you didn't get it, you're in the clear.

Good point Toph...I didn't even consider that. If she was (let's say) a hemophiliac (ie. blood doesn't clot correctly, probably the most likely cause of her condition), this would have posed as much of a risk, if not more, while performing an abortion...simply because the bleeding would be internal, and the doctors would have a harder time controlling it from the outside, if you will.

EDIT: Albeit, if done early, the amount of blood loss would be drastically less...hmm. But yeah, still no reason to believe it would have gone any more smoothly. If you say there is, then once again...it's heresay (note: as is this comment).

 

Abortions are perfectly healthy...

It doesn't help your body, but it certainly doesn't hinder it. How is it not healthy to have an abortion?

Somebody please (not being sarcastic) tell me how that happens (excluding something gone wrong during the abortion).

 

Abortions, as with any medical procedure, have many associated risks.

It's kind of hard to merely dismiss the possibility of something going wrong: the risk is quite high. It's like saying that throwing knives at your cat is perfectly healthy, 'in absence of anything going wrong.' The risk is there, and it's very real. I'll discuss so-called 'holistic health' which includes physiology, psychology and sociology.

It's difficult to give you what you're looking for because the effects from person to person vary drastically. If it's physiological problems you're looking for, sterility is quite common following abortion, for a whole slew of reasons. Peritonitis is a rather painful result of abortion (specifically the inflammation of the 'peritoneal lining' http://www.cancer-mesothelioma-information.com/peritoneal-mesothelioma.jpg).

In terms of mentally debilitating conditions, they obviously aren't consistent from person to person, but they can range from insomnia to severe depression, to mania. In short: There's a reason why in many places abortions go hand in hand with manditory counselling sessions. Even though this is a psychological area, there are physiological causes: The pregnant woman's body is a delicate cocktail of the female hormones, which when disrupted sort of cascade out of control. (I've deliberately left this vague...and the reason being, nobody, not even a PhD in psychology, could explain why, adequately).

Social issues...well, there are lots of evident social issues with having an abortion (same with getting knocked up in the first place) so I'll leave this one to you.

 

So I guess its smart to go to councling if you have an abortion.

 

Counselors don't know squat. Just talk with your parents and friends. If they are real friends they will stick by you, thick and thin.

 

Sticking with you doesn't mean they can diagnose your problems and work you through them.

 

Keep personal issues out of debates, Zerieth. Four years+ of college amounts to more than 'squat'.

 

You'd be surprised how much better a loving, caring individual can be (ie. a parent, sibling, spouse, etc.) than a 'paid' individual.

Remember we're talking about 'psychological' issues...sometimes feeling wanted, and important is enough to cure it.

But of course, if your family is dysfunctional, I'd take my chances with the psychologist.

 

Well, both are important. I don't think just care is enough to aid some more serious cases.