Open Minded Vs. Closed Minded

I don't really pay attention to the books, to be honest.
And communism hasn't succeeded because the right people weren't in power, actually.

and that actually wasn't even communism.
essentially, that was still capitalism. communism doesn't exist in this world at the moment.
Also, true communism isn't ruled by a corrupt government when the people have more power as a population. Group dynamics.

It doesn't exist because the upper tiers in societies don't like the idea of sacrificing their wealth for the sake of a nation to finally become flattened and equal.

 

no, it doesnt exist because man is corrupt and no matter who you put on the throne of your imaginary communist throne, the end result is the same.
Corruption.

Look at HISTORY!!!
Look at the WORLD AROUND YOU!!!
Nothing is perfect, communism wasn't invented to make earth a heaven, the ideal was made to try and make Marx voice stronger than his governments. He was an egotistical brat that wanted as much power as his enemies.

Its not that complicated, the fact is that no one is equal in the sense of communism's equality.
People are born equal, and will be conituely born equal under this great nation until we fall to socialist and communist pigs who want total control over our banks and our healthcare.

Hard working people deserve more than slackers.

Communism defends the spoiled brat as well as the one who is sacrificing to survive.

 

The system itself hasn't worked because of corruption, true.

But the system doesn't only protect people that aren't hardworking. It's meant to protect 'everyone' and make everyone equal because it again...removes the use of class systems. Class systems are instituted by capitalism in order for there to be an economic hierarchy to determine a division in the gain of wealth.

Under communism;
everyone gets a job
everyone gets paid the same
everyone gets health care
everyone gets a place to live
everyone survives

Even though it was created by Stalin, it doesn't mean that Communism *absorbed* Stalin's individual qualities as a human being. You need to realize the difference between a social system and a person that even though *invented* it for political purposes, it still stands as a manageable system and doesn't bare "Stalin's Soul" or anything.


Capitalism: Capital
Socialism: Social
Communism: Community

 

One thing,the class system has been around longer then communism.Atleast during the time of kings,probably before then.Probably the only time when there wernt classes was when the first humans were getting their acts together (Depending on what you believe about how humans may have been created.)

 

A. Stalin didnt invent Communism

B. Capitalism doesnt create class systems, people do. Racism does. Sexism does. Not Capitalism in any way shape or form. In a Capitalist system, the people who work harder do better, and the people who slack off dont do well. The problem with Capitalism now is that the people who are suppossed to be protecting it/our economy/ and us as a nation have turned on us for their own selfishness and greed.

C. is life really about just surviving? Life isn't fair, but i believe also that when everything is the same, when everything is equal, life is....plain. You see, the more life has its risks, the more it has its rewards.

 

He's saying tha basically, Fascism and Communism are the same as History has shown us. They're both ignore natural rights, they both kill people, etc.

In its utmost basic form it is. Everybody has the chance to improve their lifestyle. And besides, life isn't fair.

If there's one thing I've learned, its this: Every form of government is a good idea on paper.

Or (As History has shown) everyone's rights would be overlooked. And there would always be someobody dominating, reguardless if the Communist government is how Marx said it should be, or how it has been.

Right people in power.... Lol. Truth is that no matter what, the right people will never be in power. Simply because there is no such thing as 'the right people.' Human nature is guarenteed to prevent that. Read "Heart of Darkness". It shows that even somebody with the right intentions will become corrupt.

 

One,to expand on what you said about mine: Just about anything sounds good on paper or the drawing board,whatever metaphor you want to use.

2. I agree with the corruption,which is,I believe,one of the reasons George Washington did not stay president for as long as he could (which wouldnt have been that much longer anyways if I am right).The more time you have power the more likely it is to corrupt.The checks and balances we have in the US are one way to keep that or minimalize it,but it wont keep people from become corrupt anyway,no matter how good they were before.

 

"Fascism: Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict against the weak. Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state. Fascist governments forbid and suppress openness and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.[8] Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept." (This is a wikipedia definition, but it is fairly accurate as a whole)

In other words, the fortunate and rich keep the middle and lower classes fighting with each other, while they, the rich, run off with all the fucking money.

This is different in comparison with Communism.

"Communism: a family of economic and political ideas and social movements related to the establishment of an egalitarian, classless and stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general, as well as the name given to such a society."

Notice how it says "... classes and stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production."

You are ignorant if you want to sit here and tell us they are anything alike. Completely different ideologies in terms of sociological manifestation. Go back to high school plz.

Capitalism is not free trade. Capitalism is a profit-oriented society where the people's interest are second to the goal of making money.

Capitalism can be fair, but it has a wide margin for totalitarian control. Not to mention we supposedly live in a democracy, which leaves the people up for grabs to be controlled by a single individual. The united states is a corporation due to this schema, and because of it we have Obamacare and FEMA Camps.

Capitalism can never be freedom because profit is always the goal. This is incredibly basic, and saying freedom is key in a capitalistic society is directly going against it's fundamental purpose. Also, it isn't the men "on the throne" as president that make the bad decisions. It's bankers, because they are the ones who control the cash flow, busts, booms and inflation. Especially because America has a private federal reserve system that is not owned by the government. Therefore it can move freely among the economic sector. Therefore making our economy an empirical dictatorship at best.

 

1. A communist country is always corrupt and falls into a practical fascist society category, that is why they are the same. On paper they are different, but when applied they are the same.
Like a sponge and paper towel.
They are two different things, but they both are used for the same purpose. To soke things up. It is the same with Fascism and Communism. Their "definitions" are different, but when both applied they take away the people's rights and voice in government, and the government IS the ultimant dictator.

2. Your right about the bankers, but Capitalism IS ment to be free, thus the term "free market", duh? if Capitalism isn't a free economy, THEN WHAT IS?!?!?!?!
Yes there are korks in every system you can think of, and someone is always complaining, but the problems in government need to be traced back to the source, not blaimed on the economic system in play.
Like in chess. You can't blame the board or the pieces. Your only opponent is the one across the board, stairing you down.

 

While you are right on some levels, communism does lead to fascism, as does a democracy with a capitalistic economy. However that doesn't make communism and fascism similar.

In some ways, there can be arguments made that fascism is the end goal regardless. Thus communism is not the faulty system. It is simply not self-sufficient, but, is self-sustaining, which can dangerous if it has to patch its own system by using the system itself as the patch, rather than using outside sources to translate the system into a more logical working.

A free economy is an economy NOT based on differential advantage. Think about it.

That's why you use government as an anchor, however it is not the source of solutions. Engineers, creative artist directors and the like help in the process of making things work smoothly and fairly. Social problems are secondary to everyone having what they need. You can make this possible by not basing society on opinion (political opinion, left vs. right, etc), but instead on maximizing the economies potential through the most updated and advanced technologies known to man at that given time.

 

Scratch all of the fighting.

Do any of you in this thread want to actually help put your beliefs into action somehow? Not necessarily by becoming a politician or anything, but just to concoct ways to put your views into motion.

I've come up with a couple of things for me, personally.
Nearly impossible.

 

What do all of you guys think about them taking the cross out of the constitution. -_______- Right now, they is steaming up over it.

 

Separation of church and state, kupo. That's their rule, so they should keep To it.

 

1. Agree on your whole top half, thats what I was saying when i said they both look good on paper.
2. In the present time, Capitalism looks like it is based on differential advantage, but it is not. This is where history comes in. Things started to go down when the Federal Reserve was created and bankers strarted to take control of the government, yes. And if the government doesn't correct itself, then wat does it say in the constitution (or declaration of independence, i forget which one)? We the people have the right to over throw our government and re-establish a new one when the government becomes corrupt.
Capitalism starts fair, your arguement is that it doesn't end fair. I agree with that, but then again, everything is that way. If Justice and Laws are enforced, Capitalism is the best economical stand point for EVERYONE.

I've thought about becoming a polotician, I could do it to, but I probably won't considering the limelight would get to my head and I don't want to change who I am. I take the George Washington approach, haha.

I dont understand, what cross?

Theres is no such thing as seperation of church and state. Thomas Jefferson said he believed in a seperation of church and state in a speech once. Thats were the term comes from. But in law, there is NO SUCH THING. All there is is were it states the government must not have a National reilgion. Thus the government can not force anyone to believe in any one God.
So, do i believe we need more religious figures in polotics? No. I think there are enough as it is. But do I believe religion and politics should never touch? No.
I personally think we need to learn more about World Religions in schools.

 

I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm trying to show you you're contradicting yourself.

"... capitalism looks like it is based on differential advantage, but it is not." ..... "Capitalism starts fair."

Our capitalism is 200 years old. It started a long ass time ago, and the current economic failure with bank bailouts and monopolies is due to the differential advantage based capitalism that our society is right now. We are in a state of differential advantage whether you choose to believe it or not.

We can make a new government, however they have more control than they did when that silly freedom/right/etc was made. Now we have martial law. It is impossible at this point (or near-impossible). It would take a nation-wide rebellion to ever do that.

Yes it is the best for everyone when it starts. But right now it's a piece of shit system. That's what I'm saying. Yes it's free on some levels that are more fair than other systems, but it is still corrupt. Like it is right now in America.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm simply

 

i c, and i agree with you on many different levels, but a rebellion is the way to fix things. Yeah to most people stuck in their little bubbles of life and "fake happiness" it sounds like terrorism and radicalism, but its not.
Thomas Jefferson himself once said we should have a revolution every 20 years.
EVERY TWENTY YEARS!!!

I'm not saying i agree with that entirely, to some one like ME that sounds radical, but hell, it would PROBABLY work.

rebellions and revolutions are neccesary for people's right and the power of the people to remain supreme.
Once the government's injection of fear has worked its way into the veins of the communities around the nation, we as a power, we as the PEOPLE fall to the very thing WE created. Government.

I love the saying from V for Vendeta, which is this:

"People should never fear their government, government should always fear the people."

 

As much as everybody seems to love this rule, it doesn't exist. There are two things concerning religion in the Constitiution.

1. There will be no national religion.

2. Everybody has the freedom to establish their own religion (Called the 'Establishment Clause').

But in the end, separation of church and state is just a myth. In reality, there is no such thing.

If you don't believe me, go read the Constitution and tell me where in it they mention separation of church and state.

 

You are right,there is no seperation of church and state,though i would think it IS implied by both of those statements (No national religion and freedom to establish your own religion).It is better to keep them seperate if you ask me,many bad things have and still do happen when they are one and the same,but you cant keep your religous beliefs out of government,politician or not.If we could,some things wouldnt be as big a debate as they are now,abortion and gay marriage being two of them.

Not to say religon and government cant work together,just better to keep em seperate if you ask me

 

it doesn't mean we should keep religion out of our lives.

My whole point is that we should all be tought about religions so we at least have the knowledge about them.
Its better to know than not know.

And if you are an athiest, then whats wrong in learning more about the "enemy" for you? You know more about what your talking about if you read more about the subject. Thats just kinda a fact.

 

Being taught religon and following that religon are two different things.They do that at the high schools I went too,but didnt have me FOLLOW any of them,just learn about them.